Audra McDonald and Jake Gyllenhaal are playing iconic villains on Broadway, and when the two actors meet up before a Friday evening performance, they bond over their refusal to view their characters as purely evil.
McDonald, a six-time Tony winner for “Carousel,” “Ragtime” and “A Raisin in the Sun,” is making history in the revival of Stephen Sondheim’s “Gypsy.” She’s the first Black actor to portray the ultimate stage mother, Mama Rose — a part previously played by greats Angela Lansbury, Patti LuPone and Ethel Merman. And Gyllenhaal, who was on Broadway in the 2017 production of another Sondheim classic, “Sunday in the Park With George” and scored a Tony nomination for the 2019 play “Sea Wall/A Life,” channels the manipulative, scheming Iago in Shakespeare’s tragedy “Othello” opposite Denzel Washington.
“We can’t think of ourselves as monsters,” McDonald tells Gyllenhaal as they sit down for a wide-ranging discussion about life on and off the stage. Gyllenhaal puts some of the blame on theatergoers, because baddies can be more fun to root for than heroes. “I always feel the audience is complicit in their enjoyment,” he cracks.
Here, McDonald and Gyllenhaal compare notes on their theater superstitions, preserving their voices during lengthy runs and reacting when cellphones ring during performances. He’s learned to be Zen about it; she … not so much.
JAKE GYLLENHAAL: How did this production of “Gypsy” find you?
AUDRA MCDONALD: It’s a show I did in dinner theater in Fresno, California. I played one of Uncle Jocko’s kiddies, but I hadn’t ever thought about it because this role is not typically played by a Black woman. I never thought that anybody would cast me. Then my dear friend Gavin Creel was at our house for Thanksgiving about eight years ago and said, “Honey, you need to play Rose in ‘Gypsy.’ It should be a Black woman. It needs to be you.” I was like, “Huh?”
GYLLENHAAL: It never crossed your mind?
MCDONALD: No. And weirdly, Gavin died on the first day of rehearsal. He’s been with me the whole time.
Your show opened after mine, so I’m desperate to see it. Also, I can’t afford to come to your show. But for us, having to play these characters who are thought of as monsters, I imagine when you’re doing interviews, people are asking you, “What is it like playing such an evil person?”
GYLLENHAAL: I find Iago is different every night. Sometimes it veers into mustache-twirling more than it should, and sometimes he’s just brokenhearted. What’s most interesting about him is he’s not the guy who’s killing people right and left. He’s saying, “There’s a knife over there,” and then somebody else goes and stabs the person with it. It’s very prescient in that way.
MCDONALD: When I’ve seen productions of “Othello,” I want to ask Iago, “Aside from Othello, who hurt you?” But thank God for the arts — we’re having to fight to keep them alive — because they show us our humanity. When you see humanity in someone else, it’s harder to hurt them. Do you want to do more Shakespeare?
GYLLENHAAL: I’ve been humbled by it, so it’s hard to be like, “Let’s jump right back in.” You probably have your next 15 things you’re doing, right?
MCDONALD: Oh God, no. After “Gypsy,” I’m going to lie down for a year. This is the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life.
GYLLENHAAL: Why?
MCDONALD: I’ve played hard roles before,but this vibrates on such a high level. I describe her as a hurricane. Not just vocally, but when you’re playing an iconic role, there’s the judgment that comes with it: “I saw Merman. I saw Tyne Daly. I saw Patti LuPone. And this is how it’s supposed to be done.”
GYLLENHAAL: You feel that pressure?
MCDONALD: Oh, yes. We’ve turned the show on its head through a Black lens. All of a sudden, motivation seems different, even though we haven’t changed a word. Also, I have a voice that’s different than prior Roses.
GYLLENHAAL: How do you approach “Rose’s Turn”? Are there nights where that song doesn’t allow for you to tap into that thing?
MCDONALD: Of course, because I’ve done it 150 times. When we started, I was bombarded with other iconic performances in my head, and I was like, “Oh, hi, ladies. I have to figure out who I am in this song.” There’s so much in “Rose’s Turn” that can be about someone being held back because of their color and because they’re a woman. Once I let go of the iconic sound and how this has to be a big, bring-the-house-down, 11 o’clock number, I’ve been able to explore the abyss that Rose has fallen into at this point.
GYLLENHAAL: In watching you do it, it gave me hope for the possibility of a certain type of presence in theater. Obviously, techniques are used to continue through long runs, but the fact that in the show I saw the presence was there must mean it’s there every night. It must be from the exchange you had with Gavin and, obviously, who you are and all that.
MCDONALD: I noticed that I was starting to get emotional as I sang through it. It was right around the line “One quick look as each of them leaves you.” Around that time, my oldest daughter, Zoe, was getting ready to go to college. My daughter and I have a beautiful relationship, and [yet] I had all this weird rage toward her. I couldn’t figure it out. Then one day in rehearsing “Rose’s Turn,” I burst into tears. I was like, “She’s leaving me!” So that was my breakthrough.
GYLLENHAAL: How many times have your daughters seen the show? Were they at opening night?
MCDONALD: Yeah, Zoe has seen in three times and Sally, who is 8, saw it opening night. My husband came backstage afterwards, and I said, “How did Sally do during ‘Rose’s Turn’? Was it so scary for her?” And he was like, “She fell asleep.”
GYLLENHAAL: How do you maintain your voice during such a long run? Am I allowed to …
MCDONALD: You can ask. I’m always asking everybody that same question. Plays are harder than musicals because we think, “Well, I’m just talking,” and forget to support our voice. I’ve found when I’ve done just straight plays, I’ve been in more vocal trouble. How are you handling that?
GYLLENHAAL: I struggled in the first few previews. To fall back on techniques makes me feel insecure. I’m used to doing 10 takes [on film]. If you go home and your voice is shot, you’re like, “At least they got it.” So I do vocal warm-ups before the show. But forget about me. I love how meticulous a real, true singer is with their voice.
MCDONALD: It’s the neurosis of the singer. Every waking moment is “Oh my God, am I going to make it through the show tonight?”
GYLLENHAAL: But you do it all the time.
MCDONALD: It gets worse as you get older. I do a classical vocal warm-up before every show.
GYLLENHAAL: And cool down?
MCDONALD: After the show?
GYLLENHAAL: In my dressing room, I’ve written ‘Cool down’ on my mirror. You don’t do a cooldown? I’m not going to do it if you don’t do it.
MCDONALD: No, I should be …
GYLLENHAAL: If you don’t do it, I’m not doing it.
MCDONALD: Oh,no. I’m going to do one tonight. I started saying to the character as I left the theater each night, “You stay here. Audra’s going to go home and be Audra.” Because I was taking my characters home with me.
GYLLENHAAL: How long have you been doing the show?
MCDONALD: Today will be the 120th performance.
GYLLENHAAL: That will be the number of performances we do until we’re done.
MCDONALD: Do you want to come and understudy Rose after?
GYLLENHAAL: Absolutely. When does madness set in?
MCDONALD: Preview one. It doesn’t get easier.
GYLLENHAAL: Do you have stage fright?
MCDONALD: Every single night. Do you?
GYLLENHAAL: Not every night.
MCDONALD: You’re not old enough.
GYLLENHAAL: I’ve learned to become friends with it. But I have weird superstitions. I have a thing about tying my shoelaces really tight. I have a quick change in the middle of the show, and people help me. When we were in the first run-through, one person had to tie my left shoe, and I had to tie the other one. I was literally like, “Are you sure you can tie it tight enough?” What are your superstitions?
MCDONALD: I have the old-school ones. Don’t whistle backstage. Don’t say the title of the Scottish play inside of the theater.
GYLLENHAAL: Where do you keep all your Tonys?
MCDONALD: [Gestures to an imaginary satchel] Right here in this bag!
GYLLENHAAL: There have been times in shows where I’ve been like, “Ooh, steak frites after.” What happens in Audra’s mind?
MCDONALD: One mentor for me was Zoe Caldwell, an incredible Australian actress who won four Tonys. I did Terrence McNally’s “Master Class” years ago with her. She was Maria Callas, and she was onstage the whole time. I was 25 or 26, and Zoe was 62 and the grande dame of the theater. We were doing our scene, and she looked at me with an extra long pause. I was like, “Oh, my gosh, she’s so brilliant. This pause, what does it mean?” After, I was like, “Zoe, what was coming up for you?” She’s like, “I was thinking, ‘Steak for dinner tonight!’”
Were you frightened to play Iago? Well, of course; you’d be a fool if you weren’t frightened.
GYLLENHAAL: I spent a year working on it. Kenny [Leon] and Denzel came to me, and I was like, “I can’t do this.” Then I was like, “I can’t not do it,” and was in total panic.
MCDONALD: Has this experience changed you as an actor and artist?
GYLLENHAAL: One of the millions of things that I’ve learned from Denzel is freedom onstage. When things change and move, or he doesn’t remember, he’s flowing with it. I set boundaries for myself, and he’s just pushing them. It has made me calmer onstage.
MCDONALD: In doing an iconic role, have you seen Kenneth Branagh’s Iago? Some people go, “I’m not going to watch any of them.”
GYLLENHAAL: Not me—I was beginner beyond beginner. I’m not like this usually. I had to spark my brain with other people’s brilliance. I watched everything I possibly could.
MCDONALD: Do those performances haunt you?
GYLLENHAAL: No. I wish I could tell the actors how much I learned and, admittedly, stole ideas from them. In the first weeks of rehearsal, I went, “Wait, what am I doing?” My producer had done plays with Ian McKellen, and I said, “Could I talk to him? I just want to ask another Iago …” We FaceTimed and he gave me renewed inspiration. He was sharp as a tack with every moment of Iago.
MCDONALD: Oh, I believe it. So what happens when a cellphone goes off during a performance?
GYLLENHAAL: I did this monologue play, “Sea Wall/A Life,” in 2019 and was instructed by the director that whatever happens, we would respond to it. But it’s different when it actually happens. It’s a little weird when a cellphone goes off, but our play is in modern times. I don’t call it out now. What about you?
MCDONALD: I have a little water gun.
GYLLENHAAL: In a musical, you don’t hear it as much, right?
MCDONALD: Yes, you do. Did you ever have a cellphone go off during “Sunday in the Park With George”?
GYLLENHAAL: I was terrified the whole time, so I was like, “It’s fine.”
MCDONALD: When I was doing “Lady Day at Emerson’s Bar and Grill,” a cellphone went off close to the end, when Billie Holiday is high and drunk and dying at this point. At first I tried to ignore it, but then I was like, “What would Billie Holiday do?” She’s slurring her words, refusing to sing and telling these horrible stories. The person is not turning their cellphone off, so I just went, “What the fuck is that?” I snapped, and I’m sure I scared the shit out of the audience. But I had to acknowledge it.
Location: The Rainbow Room at Rockafeller Center
McDonald: Styling: Jake Sokoloff; Makeup: Jill Oshry; Hair: Chioma Nkwodimmah; Gylenhaal: Stylist: Michael Fisher/The Wall Group; Grooming: Laila Hayani @lailalhayani; McDonald, Clothing: Dress: Sergio Hudson @sergiohudson; Shoes: Larroudé @larroude; Jewelry: Tabayer @tabayer; Gyllenhaal, Clothing: Suit: Prada; Sweater: Linder Sport; Tee: Brooks Brothers; Shoes: Scarosso
From Variety US